“How do you lose control of a vehicle …..?”
Why is it that any heavy vehicle that is intended for use on public roads in this country is capable of exceeding 100 km/h?
What people fail to realise (or just don’t give a damn about) is that a mere 10% increase in speed equates to a 40% increase in stopping distance which can make all the difference between a ‘near miss’ or a major impact event which, when related to a fully-laden truck, has the potential for carnage on an unimaginable scale. At the least, the truck driver will probably end up dead and at worst, who knows how many innocent families will suffer?
In 1994 the EU required every heavy vehicle (>12 tonne GVM) to be limited to an absolute maximum speed of 89 km/h. The resultant reduction in fatal accidents alone has proved the worth of that decision.
I can hear the ranting now, “There’s no bloody way we’ll be limited to 90! The country’s too big, the distances are too great”. Sure, a lower limit will add about 10% to your driving time, but that will be more than compensated by the savings you will make in fuel consumption. Besides, just one high-speed fatal crash and all your previous tear-arsing around will have been for absolutely bugger all!
There was a time when truck drivers engendered respect, when they truly were ‘kings of the road’. Sadly, for the most part, this is no longer the case.
Listen (if you get the chance) to these latter day self-proclaimed ‘truck drivers’ as they comment over the airwaves about every other vehicle on the road. If you’re not pushing six hundred horsepower with your right foot flat to the floor, you are considered to be vermin with no business being on their road.
Reports of banked up traffic are met with replies of “no worries, I’ll push through the c***s, f***’em, there’s not one of them knows how to drive!” Listening to a report of a truck crash I was amused to hear “bet it wasn’t the truck driver’s fault.” I had to agree but I haven’t observed a ‘fair dinkum’ truckie on our highways for many a long year. I’m not saying that they are not out there somewhere, it’s just that it seems like they’ve been out manoeuvred and their ranks are getting very thin.
It puzzles me when I hear that a truck has crashed because the driver ‘lost control of the vehicle’. How do you lose control of a vehicle? The very purpose of your being in vehicle as a driver is to control it! The only way you lose control is by being negligent or inattentive, neither of which has any part in driving any vehicle.
The real reason is more likely that the driver was simply going too fast for the conditions (negligence) or was not paying enough attention to the road. “I just lost control on the bend, mate” is not an excuse and certainly is not a valid defence. Any driver who admits to losing control is admitting that he/she is not worthy of holding a licence.
Let’s look at speed limits: ‘Limit’ means “to the utmost extent”, in other words, maximum, no more, do not exceed! Speed limits are not suggestions, recommendations, minimums or averages. A road with a 100 km/h limit means that at no time, for any reason or excuse, is any driver legally permitted to exceed that posted limit! (Authorised vehicles responding to an emergency are excepted.)
Drivers are seemingly allowed to ‘get away with’ exceeding the limits because it’s claimed that speedometers are not correct. What a load of crud! If you are overtaking everything in sight and your speedometer is only showing 100 km/h, shouldn’t that tell you something?
There is a simple way to check your speedometer; all you need is a stopwatch. Have a passenger start the watch when 0 ticks over on your odometer and stop it when it registers one kilometre. It takes exactly 36 seconds to travel one kilometre at 100 km/h, if the watch shows anything other than that, adjust your driving habits accordingly; that’s what a responsible driver should do!
If you think you are being smart by ‘getting away with’ speeding, think about this: Most people who break the law do so for some perceived gain, whether it is possessions, money, drugs, etc. Let’s look at what you are really ‘getting away with’…
The faster you drive, the energy required to propel you increases and this requirement builds exponentially with your speed. For example; from 90 km/h if you increase your speed by only 30%, you increase your fuel consumption by 50%. Put simply, the fuel that you just begrudged paying $1.60 a litre for is effectively costing you $2.40 a litre while you drive at that increased speed.
Every moving object is affected by wind resistance or ‘drag’, so no one is immune! If you need proof, stick your arm out of the window while driving at 100 km/h and see what happens! By the way, these figures are based on a still, windless situation. Drive into a 10 or 20 km/h headwind and the fuel usage soars dramatically.
Of course, increased fuel usage also translates to increased output of pollutants; hydrocarbon output in this example is doubled, along with 30%-50% increases in amounts of nitrogen oxide. (If you Google – MUARC 188 you will be able to read all these facts.)
So, what you are really ‘getting away with’ is foolishly burning your hard-earned money and adding dramatically to the world’s pollution problems! Well done, dopey!
High speed driving also accounts for increased tyre wear and general wear and tear on your vehicle, but, what the hell? Your behaviour indicates that you obviously have money to burn! Of course, you may be one of the privileged who has a company vehicle or a fuel card, so this is all irrelevant to you isn’t it? Not so, every dollar your employer pays out for fuel is a dollar less that will be available for that ‘end of year’ bonus that you believe you deserve!
Regards Owen
October 6th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Couldn’t agree more Owen
October 6th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Owen you make some valid points here but instead of quoting overseas reports try looking at australian reports. back in the 80 and 90 when our speed limits where 90 km/hr the accident rate was 4 times higher than now and every thing you have stated could be applied to cars too.
how fast can your car go and why is it not limited to 110km/hr as it is the speed limit max of most australian roads except northern territory where it is 130 km/hr? if you believe anything that comes over the radio then you are as big as a fool as the people who said it in the first place.
You are right losing control of a vehicle is not a excuse for a TRUCK or CAR . As someone said before people in glass houses should not throw stones. try answering chris’s first question at the end of his modude 3. try looking at yourself before heaping all the wrong on our roads onto trucks
October 6th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Owen,not meaning to antagonize or be disrespectful to you or your comments but why is it that we have cars that can exceed well over the 100km/h?
Please Owen…read some of the past postings by truck drivers and their families …. then make the comment that they also are not concerned over road safety and road fatalities.
Yes there are some that rant and rave over their disgust and hatred of the car driving public but they are few mate.
You’ll get no argument from a majority of truckies and their families about the cretins that constantly drag good drivers down to their level[or try].
What you are mentioning is disgust at the ones who like to speed….doesn’t this equally mean all who drive or ride on our roads?
There are people who like to see how far they can push authorities on the speeding issue.
Personally I think all the ad’s in the world are not helping or getting through to most drivers or passengers.
Look at most young hoons who like to show off their vehicles or their driving prowess,they don’t appreciate losing their car or licence.
Like most they are[or as they would like to think]immune to the danger that surrounds them in doing so.
So limiting heavy vehicles to 90km/h or less I find that it would create more problems than it was meant to fix.
I haven’t been immune to the tragedy on our roads just like a few who comment on here.There’s truckies and their families along side general motoring public on here trying to make a difference and you will not convince them otherwise.
As a community we cannot strive to place blame at either section of road users,this has to cease before we can go forward.
Yes!there are truckies who rant and rave but we have some motorists also that are not bad at it.
Take the time to talk to some of these truckies and their families….I have ….their thoughts and prayers are mighty similar to a car driver[most of them drive cars too]….they don’t go to work and say today I’m going to create misery for a motorist…. No!They go to work after saying goodbye to families and loved ones with the intention of being as safe as possible …. their families don’t want that undesired knock on the door from someone in uniform informing them of one who will not be coming home.
So Owen … Road safety is an issue of all motorists.You do have valid points about fuel and savings/pollution though.
I for one will not lay blame on one particular group of road users.
No I’m not a truck driver.
Thank you,
Dave
October 7th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Owen there are many valid points you have outlined. I would invite you at any time to come on a trip with me to Perth. We will do the trip at the suggested speed of 89 klms per hour because its only 10% right which would only turn a four and a half day trip into a six day trip and because we have been loaded by some 18 year old kid at any one of the major freight companies, we will probably be overweight and top heavy from his lack of knowledge of the loading dynamics and weight distribution of b doubles and mezzanine floor loading in drop decks, so we will spend another 4 hours reloading the a and b trailers before we travel to make the vehicle safe for us so we can travel around some of the totally pristine camber perfect roads between Brisbane and Perth. How can we lose control then dopey?
And bring your sleeping bag because most of the rest stops we wont get to because they wont be open or are filled with tourists. We wont get a hot meal either within the time frame provided because the tourist trade is all year and they would rather look after a bus load than you and me mate so we will have to do a cook up on the side of the road but only after we change the 6 tyres that had blown during the day because of the hot conditions. Then we can get some quality rest time in the bunk being eaten by every bug and other creepy crawly known to man. But how can we blow 6 tyres with the perfect road conditions? That will eat into the bosses profits mate. Hey no bonus for me at the end of the year mate.
The whole structure of road transport in this country is based on heavy vehicles doing the speed limit with relation to time frames for log book hours and fatigue laws so you can get the job done in a safe manner but we can save fuel and moving parts on our trucks and cause untold frustration to other road users by using the speed you mentioned and creating road hazards when vehicles that are faster which would be everybody attempting to pass 26 meters of unstable flailing b trailer on those wonderful well maintained skinny strips of road.
Owen I don’t know what road you travel on mate but they must be just perfect. The ones that I travel on in my b double are poorly maintained. They have cutaways, washouts and potholes. You could loose a whole house in culvert dropaways and very little passing opportunities but mate how could you loose control of your vehicle?
I acknowledge that some of the points that you have made in your letter with respect to idiots are true and money can be saved by taking care of the gear and this response is not an attempt to belittle you in any way but I drive with men of great driving skill and I am proud to call them my friends. They show incredible caring, patience and forward thinking every night to achieve the things they do to get their freight there and are true kings of the road.
Try surrounding yourself with some of them and you will realise how proud I am to have known them and travelled with them
October 12th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Owen,
Whilst I applaud your research, which I must admit for the most part, I have to accept on face value, I do have to take you to task on some of your personal observations.
Firstly, while you doing all your homework, you seem to have missed the fact that we have been down the track of lowering speed limits some years ago, to 80kph. It proved futile then and it would prove futile again.
There were no astounding drops in truck accidents, fatal or otherwise, if there were, we would never have been given 90kph’s again and then back to 100kph.
It is no good basing all your solutions to a problem on the reported ‘public outcries’ which were only stirred into headlines by those that wrote the headlines for the purpose of selling headlines.
Believe me, Owen, the daily telerag, one hour, (sixty minutes), of sensationalised crap with the next super reporter, nor any other of your concerned ‘Meejah’, could give a rat’s ‘R’s about road safety. If there were no ‘juggernauts of the highway’ in the hands of drug crazed cowboy truck drivers with no regard for human life, (let alone, the rights of the uneducated, ill equipped, and unskilled smaller vehicle drivers who caused 80% of the accidents that they are reporting), they would have probably 20% less sensational stories to report. What then?
Yes, we do need restrictions on heavy vehicles, we need restrictions on a whole range of vehicles and their operators.
Kings of the Road, that was probably true a while back. If you were in trouble of any sort, out on the road, or even just out of your depth, and a truck driver came along, you could feel confident that they would get you out of it or at least help you out.
These days, why would you go out of your way to help probably the same car that got under your feet when you were trying to get the job done, or maybe even worse, like cause you, through their ignorance and/or stupidity, to risk, at best damaging your truck, at worst risking your truck and/or your life because they deemed you to be in their way.
You seem to be obsessed with trucks doing 100kph while ignoring the fact that cars are put in the hands of mere kids, who are governed by the most inept rules and restrictions that any governing body could come up with, and then say that it costs too much to enforce them. Restrict the power and then give them exemptions due to inconvenience.
How many kids have to die, Owen, before we stop allowing 200-250kph cars to be marketed in this country. Can we say, when another four teenagers are killed by a P Plate driver, and speed ‘may have been a factor’, that the driver was not worthy of holding a licence, and not take the necessary steps to ensure that the driver was taught properly.
When it comes to economics Owen, and believe me, economics rule all of these problems, (let’s keep that for another day, I love to argue economics), and enviromental issues, you’re in the wrong arena.
Owen, love to chat some more so please stay tuned to the site, I’m sure we could cover a lot more ground.
Cheers
Westy
October 13th, 2008 at 8:03 am
dear owen
who do you think you are the perfect driver. i hope you read what you wrote and in your words dopey have you ever had accident i dont think so.
you are the type of person that winges for sake of hearing his own voice. i maybe young but can tell you this the highway is differnt now to how it was to now but sadly through yours an who ever else in narrow minded things change an move forward with the times.
you wanna know real problem with drivers and when i mean drivers that includes ones that drive cars ride motorcycles and trucks its lack of education of driving in safe manner so until you can educate “L” “P” platers and people that bluntly drive in front of trucks for the sake of being ignorant and wingers like you that dont know the facts stick to gardening.
oh also it doesnt matter if you drive at 90km/h or 100km/h you dont save on fuel at all if you dont believe me try this. you do 90km/h over 100km up and down hills along flats what ever then do it at 100km/h your more likely to use more fuel at 90km/h because of the fact more gear changes need on hills and rate of fuel fluction in increased acceleration from gear changes you shouldnt need to have done also if trucks should only do 90km the cars and bikes shouldnt go any faster 90km/h
October 13th, 2008 at 8:12 am
i might add you should stop pretending to know how fuel consumption works cause you dont have a clue really. evry vehicle - even the two exact models have different fuel consumption levels. even if same person drove both it would not make a difference so grow up. maybe i should cme to your work place an say nope you doing bad job or not how you should do it or no you have to do this or you have to do that.
see how annoying it is when you have PEOPLE annoy you. thats right. how bout if you have problem at time with driver on the road look at what you are doing at the time and is that reason why they are aggressive towards you.
if your doing right thing and its a beyond safe the situation at hand well sort it how with that driver not whole industry every driver is different but your expert you should know. that word of advise what looks good on paper doesnt always look good in reality might look good in your eyes but truth is your stupid ideas my send familys broke or kill someone
October 17th, 2008 at 8:16 am
I would love to reply personally to all of your responses to my initial submission, however time and space precludes this. However, I will attempt to acknowledge most of your concerns and comments.
First of all, if you are under the impression that I am simply ‘truckie bashing’, that was not my intention. I am more than aware of the incredibly dangerous and hell-bent attitude of some drivers and riders of all vehicles and walks of life.
What I have done is to have reported FACTS and my observations over forty years of driving.
To Chris:
You, my friend, are the proverbial ‘Light at the end of the tunnel’ Keep up the good work!
To Colin:
The “overseas reports’ you accuse me of quoting actually originated in Australia. They have been well documented and published following many thousands of hours of extensive research by the well-learned people at the Monash University Accident Research Centre. Their findings mirrored those of similar international studies around the globe. I simply mentioned the EU example as being one authority that has the gonads to implement change for the better.
As for cars being unlimited in their speed, I couldn’t agree more. I wonder where we are going as a society when we are willing to accept a so-called ‘family sedan’ that is powered by a supercharged V6, or a 6.0 litre V8 tradesman’s ute with a tray that is barely big enough to carry a wheelbarrow!
You asked me how fast my car can go.. I really have no idea! Its theoretical top speed is probably around 180 km/h, but I have never had the need or the desire to find out. Your question is irrelevant; I drive to the Australian Road Rules and Laws, as is my right and responsibility.
To Dave:
You basically said what I didn’t have time to put in there myself. Thank you.
PS. I was a truck driver.
To Nitro:
Do you mean to tell me that every time you hitch up a loaded trailer you have to spend four hours reloading it before you can get on your way? It’s not very good economics from the boss’s point of view is it? I suppose that gives you an excuse to speed so you can make up that time.
I must confess to being somewhat confused, you cite speeding cars attempting to pass (and I assume you mean overtake) 26 metres of unstable, flailing b doubles when you just said that you spend so much time reloading them to make them stable and safe. Could it have something to do with their rate of travel that affects their stability? (I’ll try not to use the ‘S’ word, it appears to hit a nerve.)
In my new occupation, before anybody enters a site we conduct a Job Safety Analysis. Every potential hazard is noted and we take every step possible to avoid that hazard from developing into a risk and causing injury or death. You state that you travel on narrow, twisting, potholed roads, yet you apparently refuse to accept that they pose a hazard and thunder on regardless. Why? Because you’re on a timetable, because the boss will lose money if you’re late! How much will he lose when you crash? How much will you lose? No truck = no income = no money for the mortgage = no home. You might possibly gain a manslaughter charge, a gaol term and if you’re not seriously injured you might just be able to drive again one day.
No load is worth dying (or killing) for!
No job is worth risking your family for!
You mentioned tyres; could it be that hitting all those potholes, washouts and cutaways at high speed (Oops, there’s that word again!) might have something to do with their failing? Heat, caused by friction, caused by speed is the main killer of tyres. The M1 out of Brisbane has no potholes yet the roadway is littered with the remnants of failed tyres. Are they all presumed to be faulty, or could it be that heat has had something to do with their demise?
It’s nice to know that you have many friends whom you consider deserve to be called ‘Kings of the road’. I just hope for their families sakes that they don’t end up dead at the hands of some illiterate drongo who shouldn’t be behind the wheel.
To Westy:
Mate, what can I say?
I do not watch so-called ‘current affairs’ shows, nor do I buy newspapers.
I do listen to the ABC and my letter was not some knee-jerk reaction to any recent occurrence.
My personal observations are thus: I drive on PUBLIC roads just below the posted speed limit, as is my right and responsibility. What I find offensive is having some moron, who obviously has anger-management issues, sitting half a metre off my arse blowing his horn at me because I have the audacity to be on his road! (Note that I did not specify trucks!)
Aggressive driving has no place on our roads.
Aggressive drivers are aggressive because they can be.
If you want to eliminate high-speed tailgating and aggressive behaviour, eliminate the ability to exceed the maximum allowable speed limit for heavy vehicles and that will be a start in the right direction.
Like you, I am astounded at the lack of responsibility when it comes to manufacturing and promoting motor vehicles. Even the ‘Open Road’ magazine recently reported on some road tests of some five new cars. One “gets up to speed in an eye-blink”, another is “still blisteringly fast” while another’s “supercharged four-cylinder engine pushes it along at blistering speeds”
Rather than tut-tutting when kids get killed in their ‘pocket rockets’, the whole motoring industry should give itself a good kick up the arse and look at where it is heading. (And I make no distinction regarding the number of wheels on any vehicle!)
To Ben:
Dear me, poor Ben! Yes, I have had my share of crashes.
Your attitude is analogous to a bunch of little kids being left alone with a pile of biscuits and being told not to touch them. When one biscuit is missing and they are questioned about it, the guilty party usually protests the loudest!
Whinging? As I said to Colin, I merely presented FACTS and my own observations. If you interpreted that as ‘whinging’ I have no idea where you are coming from.
Perhaps you have been caught with your hand in the biscuit barrel!
Try to understand this: EVERY self-propelled object is subject to the Laws of Physics. The fact that we are in the Southern Hemisphere and our water goes down the plughole the opposite way does not mean that we are immune to these Laws! (Rest easy, Albert, Sir Isaac and others!)
The faster you try to move that object, the more energy is required to do so.
Yes, you can get a hundred identical new cars off the production line and they will all have differing fuel consumption rates, but ALL of them will also progressively use more and more fuel the faster they are driven. Why do commercial jets fly 10,000 metres up? Because there is less friction and they use less fuel. If they were forced to fly 500 metres above the ground, no one could afford to use them.
Of course, Ben, if you believe you are in possession of information that contradicts these Laws, you are more than welcome to present them. I am sure that the learned folk at Monash University (to name just one) are open to the discussion of new theories.
Come to my workplace! If you can offer constructive criticism that will provide a safer working environment, be ecologically sustainable and save money and resources, please, you are welcome! (I won’t hold my breath!)
You stated that you are young, Ben. I just hope that your attitude affords you the pleasure of growing old.
Regards all,
Owen.
October 20th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Words fail me! How can a person who was obviously behind the door or even absent from school the day English was taught ever have managed to obtain a driving licence? Ben, you’re kidding us, aren’t you? Just stirring the pot? Please tell me I’m right.
October 27th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Dear Owen and Everybody,
This is healthy informative debating of opinions, keep it up, because we are all learning by it and giving thought to the varying experiences of truckies and motorists.
Sincerely Irene Baldwin
October 27th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
J Woodward,please mate,don’t berate someone because of incorrect grammar. I made the mistake of jokingly having a go at a person,Scooter was his handle,in the beginning of this site but found this fellow to be one of the kindest human beings around.He got his feelings across the best way that he could and in the end even I could read between the lines and understand what he meant.
So please be kind to Ben,it’s not for us to judge as there could be many reasons as to a poor education.
In saying this,education or schooling doesn’t make the man but what and how he treats others…..that’s what counts!
I don’t care in the least whether the person is a non heavy vehicle driver or otherwise,they have the right to have their say.
So,Ben,go for it mate!
As for for my mate Scooter,has anyone found the old coot?
Dave
October 29th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Whilst I stand by my response to Owen’s original post, I must comment right here, that this chain of responses is one of the most positive I have witnessed since joining this site.
If one didn’t know better, you could be forgiven for thinking that ‘Mother’ had selected the replies for the sake of editing, (I know for a fact that she doesn’t).
The original letter from Owen cites a healthy mixture of fact and ’scientific rhetoric’, (no disrespect meant, but I have my own views on that but, later), which has lead to a flurry of responses, best summed up by Irene. This is the stuff that results stem from.
Right, enough of the ‘diplomat’.
Owen, I rightly or wrongly, assume from your letter, that you are now engaged in OH&S in one way or another, which is a commendable job, but I have to defend, not just myself here, but Ben, Nitro and Colin.
My first defence is based, also on personal observations and experienced and around 40 years driving, not all in trucks.
I always drove to the rule that you can only grow by extending yourself, but you have to be very selective where and when it is safe to do that.
Just to digress momentarily, it is probably a very contentious issue, but I believe young drivers today, especially the hoons, are getting valuable experience through their aggresion, they just don’t have any respect for anyone else on the road. As ‘young hoons’ ourselves, we learned to do ‘doughies’ etc, in the paddock or on some isolated gravel road. Those places are hard to come by now so, they do on the road. The problem with all this is, they were never taught properly in the first place, or later.
Anyway as I said, I digress.
I have always held an attraction to driving and I take it very seriously, and so, I am always watching and assesing what goes on around me. I was one of the fortunate ones when I started in heavy vehicles, in that I had a few very good drivers around me who knew the game, and as in the ways of back then, they would take time out to show you a better way.
What I am getting at, Owen, is that, like you, I have leaned a bit along the way, but, sometimes someone comes along with all the learning in the world, usually gained in their ’scientific Utopia’, (Uni’s etc), and tells me their’s is a better way.
A quick example, the company I contract to recently went through all the load restraint education and enforcement, and came to the conclusion that after, how many years of holding loads on safely and successfully?, belly roaps/chains don’t work!
My only response, being ever so ‘diplamatikal’, was, thank God they found that out, all these blokes that have used that idea successfully, over the last 50 or so years could have hurt themselves or others by relying on them to hold the load, and all that time it didn’t work. Where would we be without that sort of research. If you lift a trailer sideways to 45 degrees with concrete pipes loaded transversly, without downward pressure, the pipes will slide off and break, nothing to do with the 20 tonne truck that just landed on top of them. The ‘belly chain combined with the two diagonal cross chains holding them down are useless.
In my experience, what actually happens ‘out there’, very seldom coincides with what will take place on the theory paper, and before you say, but these are cited as best case scenarios, if the outcome is different, it must be because of other influences. That’s fine, but when you promote your best case scenario, tell people that they have to take other factors into account and then instead of allowing .5 of a second to react, they will have to pull up and work out how long they will need to avoid a collision when some idiot in front slaps his brakes on.
I make no apologies, Owen, for my lack of respect for scientific data except when it is used sensibly, not rammed down my throat as the law which will apply to all circumstances.
With regard to Colin, and I confess here that I do not know Colin, or, for that matter, Ben or Nitro, except from the exchanges of views on this site, but you agree, as I do, on his points regarding vehicle speeds.
Nitro, (and Nitro, I would guess, would probably double my experience)like me, gives a lot more creedance to what actually happens than to the truth of the matter according to scientific studies and, again, like me, understands the economical aspect of the job. Get the job done safely in the shortest time possible, simply because the way this industry is structured, rates do not reflect the industries concerns for safety. If you are going to worry about accidents, park the truck up and go home, they are a fact of life, hence the reason for this site!
For all the Ben’s out there, and I am not being derogatory to Ben or anyone else, they may not be articulate enough to express themselves in a manner fitting an academic, or be proficient enough with a computer to satisfy the Grammar Society, and neither am I, but, I’d back Ben to be as good behind the wheel as Henry Lawson was with poetry or C. J. Dennis with short stories, and I love both of their works.
In reply to J. Woodward, you obviously missed the writings of Smokey and Carl!
One last point, Owen, and I had to ask this of a safety officer at Comm Steel only last week, speaking of safety and economics, can Australia really afford all this Safety and Health business. It’s all very commendable to be concerned for workers safety, but as a manufacturing nation, Australia has been hog tied, and now almost crippled by cheap imports produced in the so called ‘bowl of rice day’ factories, and all because of those bloody workers and their totally unreasonable demands for decent wages. Now, Owen, I am told that I, not only can’t climb on the load to secure it, but because Workcover has deemed that there is no safe working height, I am not even allowed on the back of my truck!
Some common sense Please!
One more ‘last point’, I respect your ‘right’ to drive below the speed limit, although it is not your responsibility to drive below, only not to exceed it, BUT…, I expect the same respect of my right to drive AT the speed limit. This is the Cooperation aspect of what sharing the road is all about.
I would like to think that you can temper your scientific findings, Mate, because there are not too many around with your obvious experience on both sides of the fence, and we could use some coomon sense in all this regulation.
Good to ‘talk’ with you and look forward to more discussions.
Cheers
Westy
October 29th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
owen you are a complete and utter knob, face the facts YOU ARE A TRUCKIE BASHER AND YOU DONT LIKE TRUCKS. how do i know this, its simple you have just wasted a lot of your time on this site, why dont you get some balls and walk into the local truckstop and make your comments heard instead of talking shit from a keyboard
October 30th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Dear Westy,
I am impressed with the ‘practicle science’ of yours in regard to concrete pipes and loading of vehicles which you stated in your letter; obviously this has come from practicle experience over the years and no doubt you would have more valuable scientific knowledge’up your sleeve’ as other truck driver’s would also have. Wouldn’t it be great to blend this knowledge with those academics who do come up with good recommendations? Similar to what Ron Hannifey does, like driving a politician around the countryside once a month, to give him first hand experience and the practicalities in regard to theory and practice!
In regard to OH&S, there does have to be common sense, I agree, but I would dread to think what would happen if Safety Restrictions were removed.
Dear Owen
‘How do you lose control of a vehicle?’ Speed, lack of concentration are factors; but I also return to the fact of appropriate treatment and conditions for the truck driver, in relation to fatigue related accidents (not that this can be a cop out! The truck driver must fulfill his responsibilities) I am coming in again toward the ‘Chain of Responsibilty’ principals, where firms and major outlets fulfill their responsibilities toward the men and women driving heavy vehicles and having them unloaded as promptly as possible, adequate rest facilities and decent treatment. If the driver is going to be treated like disposable rubbish, inevitably he will respond and behave badly. If he is appreciated for the skills which he has and recieves fair treatment, he will be more inclined to respond as ‘Kings of the Road’
There are good men and women ‘heavy vehicle operators’ out there, sadly being judged by irresponsible drivers. I am not sure that 90k’s is the answer, but of course I wouldn’t have a clue as I am ignorent in matters regarding to handling these rigs.
Dear Ben,
It all seems to come back to driver education and understanding between the truckie and motorist doesn’t it? Obviously you too, have practical knowledge like Westy, Chris, Nitro and other truckies, which would be good to know; because as motorists, it could help us to avoid unwittingly making dangerous mistakes and it could help soften the attitude between the ‘truckie’ and the motorist in the complex issue of safety practices
Dear David Niven
I agree with you, some people have difficulty expressing themselves (no way could I talk in front of a crowd, or do what Lyndal does! I really am a background kind of person!) But sometimes unlikely people have good and valuable knowledge within, sometimes you do have to ‘read between the lines’ I believe that we can learn something from everyone.
As you say, you may not have a heap of book learning, but it is the person within which counts.
Well! I didn’t intend to write to ‘C TO C 100′ I just popped in to have a look!! This is ridiculous! I must do some housework! Take care everybody
Sincerely Irene Baldwin
October 31st, 2008 at 8:50 am
Nathan ….. What’s not to like about trucks? they’re big, powerful and impressive and they accomplish a job over this vast land that would be impossible by any other means of transport.
Truckie basher? Yeh, if you are one of those Rogue Drivers out there who doesn’t give a damn about other road users then you deserve a bashing, and rightly so!
I grew up in a truckie family. My dad drove the Sydney to Melbourne and Adelaide run in the fifties (at a maximum truck speed of 35 MILES per hour)When he wasn’t driving, he was a mechanic and our home was often an unofficial ‘truck stop’. It was not unusual to have four or five drivers camped on our loungeroom floor while dad worked on their rigs.
I had nothing but respect for those blokes, because they EARNED it!
Sure, they all had issues, they were away from their families for extended peroids (especially when they got stuck on the Hay Plain in the rain for weeks on end), but they were always professional behind the wheel.
I still count many truckies as my mates. Some agree with me, some don’t. I could walk in to a truck stop, but would I be heard over the ‘mob mentality’? No. This forum will reach a greater number of people than a hundred visits and if it helps promote rational debate, then that’s a positive step.
Unfounded insults like your post, Nathan, do nothing to improve your standing in the human race.
Owen
October 31st, 2008 at 1:19 pm
G’day Westy ….. I like the way you think. I’ve experienced for myself the fact that all the Uni degrees in the world are not worth the paper they are printed on unless you have done time in the ’school of life’.
Common sense, I’m afraid, has been thrown out with the bathwater. Just last Sunday one of our crews was at the roadside when an off-duty OH&S officer rode past. He went home, changed into his uniform and returned with his ID and rule book.He then proceeded to berate one of my blokes and threatened him with a fine because his safety vest was NOT FASTENED! If he was truly conscientious he should have immediately pulled up and quietly suggested that the vest be worn correctly.
If my dad was alive today he’d laugh at the fact that drivers are no longer allowed to climb on their trailers, it was part of his job description! On the other hand, what are the stats on the number of drivers who been maimed or killed after having fallen?
Safety laws, though seemingly draconian, are there to protect life, nothing more or less.
In the seventies it was an accepted practice to head for the local for a skinfull after work, we all did it! When the correlation between alchohol and the accident rate was proven, a limit was set and RBT was introduced. Most of us (the sensible ones, that is) accepted the change, altered our habits accordingly and alcohol related road deaths have now decreased.
Excessive speed has long been known as a contributing factor regarding accidents on our roads, yet we seem to be oblivious of(or complacent about)that fact. We keep making our cars safer with airbags, anti-lock brakes etc, but when two vehicles collide head on with a closing speed of 220 km/h, it’s all academic.
I coined a phrase that I drum into my blokes at every opportunity, it is relevant for every undertaking and/or occupation:
“SAFETY IS FOR EVERYONE…NOT EVERYONE ELSE!
Owen
October 31st, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Dear Kerry Kare Bear
I hope that Westy didn’t get his feelings hurt too much, because Ian called him ‘Poo Bear’! I am sure that ‘Poo Bear’ is a very nice bear! Do you have an interest in bears too?
Sincerely Irene Baldwin
November 11th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
fair share of crashes owen? are you therefore, unworthy of holding a licence? or perhaps there was outside factors beyond your control? diesel on the road? black ice? water? other drivers around? mehanical fault?i dont want to dive in and abuse or critcise, but you sound a little hypocritical to me owen..
marty
November 17th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Marty,where are you now?…and what are you doing?
Dave
November 20th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Marty,
While you’re not being abusive or critical, you’re also not being observant. I did not say my”fair share of crashes”; I said that I’d “had my share”, meaning that I’m not perfect as suggested by Ben.
Regardless of who is at fault, when you see first hand the damage a relatively slow moving heavy vehicle can do to a smaller vehicle and it’s occupant, it should make everyone take stock and seek change.
Where is the hypocrisy in starting a discussion, the crux of which has the potential to save lives, resources and cut down on the amount of crap we are pushing into the atmosphere?
Owen.
November 28th, 2008 at 10:30 am
hey dave im in west qld drivin road trains for a company out there. whats been goin on mate